[烛光生存狂]-波兰空军王牌Stanislaw Skalski访谈

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47587&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Aviation History: Could you tell us something of your background prior to World War II?

Skalski: I was born in Kodyma, north of the Russian city of Odessa, on November 27, 1915. After the 1917 Russian Revolution broke out, my father sent my mother with me to Zbaraz, near Lwow, in 1918. He, too, eventually made his way to Poland and got an office position in Dubno in 1923. I lived there until 1933.

1915年11月27日,我出生在俄国城市奥得萨以北的Kodyma.1917年俄国革命爆发后,父亲于1918年把我和妈妈送到了利沃夫(Lwow)附近的Zbaraz.他最终也设法回到了波兰并且在1923年在杜布诺(Dubno)找到了一份办公室的工作.我在那一直生活到1933年.

AH: What led you to seek a career in aviation?

Skalski: Since 1927, when I first saw an airplane in southern Poland, I thought I would like to learn to fly. After being a student for two years in political school, I started training on gliders in 1934, and in April 1935 I passed the course in powered aircraft. When I decided to become a military pilot, I had to try again, but I passed all the flying courses before I got into cadet school in January 1936.

AH: What was your training like?

Skalski: I and my class trained at Deblin from 1936 to October 15, 1938, when we graduated as officers. I began with the RWD-8 primary trainer. It was very easy to fly--a piece of cake. Then I switched to the PWS-14 and PWS-26, two-seat aerobatic biplanes that could be seen in aero clubs everywhere in Poland. Later on, we went through tests to determine our different personal characteristics--doctors would watch us to see who was more aggressive at sports such as boxing. Out of my class of 40, eight to 10 of us were selected for fighters, while the others became bomber or observation pilots.

AH: What was your first unit assignment?

Skalski: Before promotion, a graduating cadet could ask the authorities for an assignment. I asked my senior officer for the best fighter squadron. He said the best was the 4th Air Regiment of the III Fighter Division [the III/4 Dywyzjon, or Dyon, comprised of the 141st and 142nd eskadri, or squadrons] at Torun, which had distinguished itself for two years in competition among squadrons. So, although the 6th Regiment was closest to my family in eastern Poland, I asked for the 4th. Looking back on 50 years, I was lucky I chose it. I built up my future there. Within the regiment, I was assigned to the 142nd Eskadra, which was comprised of nine airplanes, with three in reserve.

AH: What were the PZL P-7 and P-11c fighters like to fly?

Skalski: I only flew the P-7 in advanced fighter training. Only one squadron at Krakow and one at Wilno still had P-7s at that time. When I joined the 142nd, we already had the P-11c. The PZL fighter was a very pleasant airplane. The P-11c had become obsolescent by 1939, but a more modern PZL fighter, the P.50 Jastrzab ("hawk") was being developed, which would have been built in 1941. After the North African campaign in 1943, I went to Cairo and met Brig. Gen. Ludomil Rajski, who later flew three missions from Italy over Warsaw in Consolidated Liberators during the Warsaw Uprising of August-September 1944. He told me that when the Germans occupied Poland, they found the Jastrzab's airframe and evaluated it. Their Focke Wulf Fw-190 was suspiciously similar to the P.50 in structure, with a bigger engine.

AH: What was the Polish air force's state of readiness when World War II broke out?

Skalski: When I got to the 142nd, the commanding officer (CO), Flight Captain Miroslaw Lesniewski, gave me the job of intelligence officer. I got all our intelligence regarding German units that were likely to fly against us, but I was forbidden to write anything. I gave the pilots all details from my head. On a few occasions, I shot at Dornier Do-215s that were flying clandestine photographic missions over northern Poland from March to May 1939. I flew as high as 7,000 meters trying to intercept them, but the closest I got to one of them was about 300 meters. They were as fast as our fighters--faster even. We knew the Germans had better aircraft, but we thought we could cope with it. We thought the French could help.

AH: What did you do on the first day of the war?

Skalski: In the afternoon of September 1, 1939, a Henschel Hs-126 [of Army Reconnaissance Group 21] crossed the border. That was reported to my division, and I took off with another pilot. Meanwhile, however, two pilots of the 141st Eskadra, 1st Lt. Marian Pisarek and Corporal Benedykt Mielczynski, had taken off on their second mission of the day to intercept a reported Do-17 formation at 3:21 p.m., when they spotted the Hs-126 and attacked it. After a few bursts, its engine stopped, and the plane came down in a field near Torun and flipped over on its back. I then found the plane and decided to see what maps or information it might have. I landed nearby and noticed plenty of blood in the Henschel's enclosed cockpit. The pilot, Friedrich Wimmer, was slightly wounded in the leg; his navigator, whose name was von Heymann, had nine bullets in his back and shoulder. I did what I could for them and stayed with them until 11 a.m., when an ambulance came.

AH: What became of the Germans?

Skalski: The prisoners were transferred to Warsaw. After the Soviet Union invaded Poland on September 17, they became prisoners of the Russians but were released at the end of October. When they were interrogated by the highest Luftwaffe authorities, Wimmer told them of my generosity. The Germans, who later learned that I had gone to Britain to fight on, said if I should became their prisoner I would be honored very highly. The observer, von Heymann, died in 1988. Three years later, the British air attaché and Luftwaffe archives helped me to contact Colonel Wimmer. I went to Bonn to meet him in March 1990, and the German ace Adolf Galland also came over at that time. In 1993, Polish television went with me to make a film with Wimmer. Reporters asked why I did it--why I landed and helped the people we had shot down, exposing my fighter and myself to enemy air attack. I was young, stupid and lucky. That is always my answer!

AH: When did you return to your airfield?

Skalski: I came back late in the afternoon, and I had to land on the road close to a forest--Torun aerodrome had been bombed already. I then gave Lt. Gen. W. Bortnowski, commander of the Pomeranian army, the maps from the Hs-126, which gave all the dispositions and attack plans of German divisions in Pomerania. He kissed me and said this was all the information his army needed.

AH: When did you score your first official victory?

Skalski: The next day, September 2, we went up to intercept Do-17s attacking Torun. Nine were circling--I made head-on attacks at the formation and got a Do-17 armed with cannons. Minutes later, I got a second Do-17.

AH: So you started your scoring with a double victory. But I seem to remember that Do-17s were not armed with cannons--Messerschmitt Me-110s were, and German records indicate that the I Gruppe of Zerstörergeschwader 1 lost an Me-110C-1 at that time. That being the case, you would also be the first pilot to shoot down one of those new twin-engine fighters.

Skalski: That is probably so, because we were completely unfamiliar with the Me-110--it had only made its combat debut the previous day. It was also on September 2 that Captain Florian Laskowski, CO of the III/4 Dyon, was killed by groundfire, after only 15 minutes in the air, following a stupid order from our regimental command to attack a panzer division with the P-11c's four 7.7mm machine guns. Captain Tadeusz Rolski took over the regiment.

AH: Do you have any comments on the two Hs-126s you downed on September 3?

Skalski: One, which Lieutenant Karol Pniak, 2nd Lt. Pavel Zenker, Corporal Zygmunt Klein and I attacked in the morning, crashed in a

AH: After downing two Me-109Es on September 2, you were shot down yourself on September 5. What do you recall of that combat?

Skalski: I don't remember my September 2 victories very well, except that they were in two different fights on the same mission. On September 5, I was flying in Hogan's Hurricane V6644, squadron code SD-B. I got one He-111 and two Me-109s and still had ammunition, so I went off to do some hunting by myself. I didn't know who shot me down until he made a slow roll in front of me--by then I was already on fire. He had come up from below and behind me. He hit my reserve tank, located behind the engine, but I would have been even less fortunate if he had hit my main tank. I preferred to use the main tanks first; if I used up the fuel in the reserve tank, there would be fumes left in it, and if a bullet hit it, it could have exploded and I would have been killed. As it was, I was on fire, including my tunic and other clothing. I used to fly without goggles--I put my hands over my eyes and opened the cockpit, but the pressure kept me in my seat. I used my right hand to try to get out while the plane dove from 28,000 feet at 600 mph. Once my head was out of the cockpit, the wind pulled me out. I probably collided with the right fuselage or tail. My hand is still injured--I can't play tennis--and my knee also hurts. I was probably unconscious after hitting the airplane, but a sixth sense told me not to open my parachute until the fire was out. Three years ago, I found out in a medical journal that when you are between life and death, something in your head tells you what you have to do. When I opened my eyes, I was floating 200 feet above the ground. I landed in a field, and a police car came from the bushes. The policemen asked me, "German?" "No," I said, "I'm from Poland." They took me down to a hospital with a Canadian unit. A few weeks later, I was visited by a squadron mate, Sergeant James H. "Ginger" Lacey, who would become a 28-victory ace. I asked him to fill out a report on my claims that day for the intelligence officer, which he promised to do, but for some reason the three victories I scored that day were not officially confirmed.

AH: After six weeks in the hospital, you returned to action. Did you have any trouble after what had happened to you?

Skalski: Hogan wasn't sure if I was fit when I rejoined No. 501 Squadron on November 8. I told him, "I can fly, I'm all right," so my flight leader gave me a plane and told me to do some aerobatics. After 10 minutes, I became terrified of being on fire--I was still suffering from the shock of being shot down. Soon after I landed, however, there was a scramble and my flight leader had me fly behind him as his No. 2. Soon after we took off, we ran into 27 Me-109s coming from north to south. I radioed, "Follow me," then attacked, and in quick succession I shot down two of the Messerschmitts, which were jointly credited to me and two other pilots. I had overcome my fear and everybody bought me a beer afterward. [The Me-109Es were apparently from II Gruppe, Jagdgeschwader 26, which was conducting an offensive sweep and claimed four Supermarine Spitfires that day; in fact, they shot down two Hurricanes and forced two others to land. The only recorded loss for II/JG.26 occurred when Feldwebel Ortwin Petersen's plane was hit, though he nursed it across the Channel before crash-landing on the beach in France.]

AH: At the end of February 1941, you transferred to the all-Polish No. 306 (City of Torun) Squadron. How did that differ from No. 501 Squadron?

Skalski: My old CO of the 142nd Eskadra, Rolski, arranged to get me into his RAF squadron. He got three Skalskis at various times--Marian was killed while test-flying a captured German Me-262 and Henryk was shot down and killed over France while serving in a British squadron. Number 306 Squadron was equipped with the Supermarine Spitfire Mark IIb, armed with two 20mm cannons and four machine guns. It was a more intelligent airplane than the Hurricane, more maneuverable at higher speeds. Which of the two was best depended on the job you had to do--for defense, the Hurricane was fantastic. For offensive operations, the Spitfire was better--it could fly higher and had better armament. During the Battle of Britain, we had plenty of Spitfires on patrol and they'd get some of the Germans over the French coast before they even got to the target.

AH: How did the Spitfire Mk.IIb compare with the new model Me-109F that was then appearing over the Channel?

Skalski: We had no trouble with 109Fs. The important thing was to see the enemy at the right time. The next Me-109 I got, southwest of Gravelines on July 24, 1941, didn't see me when I jumped him. I downed an Me-109F on August 19 and another two days later.

AH: On September 17 you flew one of the new Spitfire Mark Vbs. How did that compare with the Mark IIb?

Skalski: The fuselage was the same, but the engine was more powerful. We lost Sergeant Stanislaw Wieprzkowicz, who was killed, and pilot officer Czeslaw Dazuta, taken prisoner on September 16, but I got a couple of Me-109Fs [again from JG.26] southeast of Dunkirk the next day.

AH: After a rest period, you began your second RAF tour with No. 317 "City of Wilno" Squadron in March 1942, and you started to encounter the Focke Wulf Fw-190A. How did you think the Spitfire Mk.Vb performed against the Fw-190A?

Skalski: The first time we met, of course, it was a surprise--the Fw-190 was a very good airplane, better than the Spitfire V. We met more than 20 of them. There was a big dogfight with Me-109s and Fw-190s. I didn't do much. I got an Fw-190 on April 10, which was later rerated as a "probable," after which I damaged an Me-109F on April 25 and scored another probable over an Fw-190 on May 3.

AH: In November 1942, you were made chief flying instructor of 58 OTU at Ballado Bridge. Did you find that training new pilots was satisfying?

Skalski: Orders were orders, but I was unhappy. I asked the CO of the fighter school, "Sir, can you help me? I hate this job. I'd take a loss in rank to join a British squadron in the south." They needed chaps who wanted to fight. In the meantime, Air Chief Marshal William Sholto Douglas, who took over RAF Fighter Command in November 1941, was posted to the Middle East Air Force [MEAF]. When he got to Cairo, Egypt, at the end of 1942, he sent a message to the Air Ministry saying, "I have no Poles here." In March 1943, I was placed in command of 15 pilots--10 officers and five NCOs--who were sent to North Africa without ground crews. The Polish Fighting Team, or PFT, was attached to No. 145 Squadron, commanded by an American, Squadron Leader Lance C. Wade. That squadron provided us with food and administration, and Wade arranged mechanics for us. I became very friendly with "Wildcat" Wade. We also used to fly missions with American units at that time.

AH: The PFT, also called "Skalski's Circus," was equipped with the Spitfire Mk.IX. What was your impression of that model?

Skalski: That was a super modern plane, very maneuverable and fast--it surpassed the Fw-190A.

AH: What were some of your combats over the desert?

Skalski: On March 28, Flight Lt. Eugeniusz Horbaczewski and I flew from the sea, made a deep penetration of enemy territory in Tunisia and got two Junkers Ju-88s over Sfax. They didn't expect us--it wasn't fighting, it was just exercise. We also saw an enemy column, so we went down and shot up the vehicles and plenty of Germans. I downed an Me-109 over El Hamma on April 2, and another two days later. On May 6, there was a big German resupply flight. We flew top cover for a squadron of American Curtiss P-40 Warhawks--there was a massacre and the Bay of Tunis seemed to be on fire. Later in the war, I met one German POW who had been there and who was a good swimmer--he made it to shore, but a hell of a lot of his comrades were killed. He was later

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