[烛光生存狂]-老兵访谈

Leon Degrelle

NAME- Leon Degrelle

NATION- Belgium

DATE (S) OF INTERVIEW (S) March 1984, April 1993 (Telephonic)

PLACE OF INTERVIEW (S) Barcelona, Spain

LANGUAGE (S) CONDUCTED English, German, French

SIGNIFICANCE OF SUBJECT- Leader of the Belgian Socialist Rexist

Movement; German volunteer, Waffen SS General and 28th Waffen SS Division Commander.

OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE- Michele Ulovey

FORMAT- Q & A standard.

Q- When and where were you born?

A- I was born in Bouillon, Luxembourg on 15 June 1906.

Q- What was your family like?

A- My father was a brewer, a good Catholic man, and my mother was the most wonderful woman in the world.

Q- What was your education like?

A- My family had been Jesuit educated for many generations, and I went to the College of Notre Dame de la Paix. I studied the classics and theology, but was seriously drawn to politics. The Jesuits taught us to expand our mind and pursue knowledge, which I did. Unfortunately some of my fellow countrymen took a dim view of my independent writing and publishing on certain political thoughts. I had a tough time.

Q- You were arrested, were you not?

A- Yes, I was arrested in 1940 by French troops, beaten, and moved around from damp jail cells where I was tortured until finally freed by German troops. They knew who I was since I was a leader of the Rexist Party, which was a Socialist anti-Communist political party. Seeing that I would not receive any help, let alone justice from the authorities in Belgium I knew that that government was illegitimate, and I decided that the corruption must be challenged.

Q- How did you join the German army?

A- My brother had been murdered, my parents and wife killed after torture, and my eight children were taken away and scattered to the winds, a situation that would not be resolved for many years. I basically had some additional political problems, and until the Germans invaded and captured the country I was not safe. I felt that Belgium would only be a great and sovereign nation again once Germany won the war and eliminated the dangers of Communism. I formed the first group of volunteers from the Flemish and Walloons, and we were formed in our own battalion. Later we were assigned to the training centres, and then deployed to Army Group Center at first. Many of our men were sent to the Demyansk region as support in late 1941 to early 1942, but were then recalled and joined 5th SS ‘Wiking’ in the Ukraine later. We later became our own independent Waffen SS unit, the 28th der Waffen SS Panzergrenadier Division ‘Wallonien’ in April 1944 at a ceremony in Brussels. ‘Sepp’ Dietrich, Max Wuensche and other notables were there for the induction ceremony. We started with 400 men in 1940, later growing to about 15,000, but only about 400 would be around after the war, including myself and two other original members. Of the original 6,000 men in the regiment before becoming a division 2,500 were killed. We had a great combat record, and Hitler personally congratulated me and gave me the Oak Leaves. I believe that we had the greatest number of Knight’s Crosses of any foreign unit, but I am not sure.

Q- What was it like for you, fighting on the Russian Front?

A- Well, that was where the real war was. The greatest threat was from Communist Russia and the Western Allies discovered this only too late; we live in the world created by this today. As far as Russia, it must be the weather, especially the bitter winters, and the endless steppe that goes forever. We were not prepared for this environment. The Russians were used to it and were well clothed to resist the cold. The greatest assets we had were the opportunity to strip Russian dead and take their padded clothing and felt boots, as well as those marvelous fur hats. They were very adapted to ski warfare, which we also used, and were perhaps even better at since we were Edelweiss trained as well. The partisan war was the worst, we had to adapt immediately to very situation, and the situation always changed. This was especially bad since they did not wear uniforms and could blend into any village. A typical day was when we moved all night on foot, sometimes with trucks and always looking for the next ambush. The Soviets sent artillery in to try and channel us into their killing zones, but we hit the earth and pushed through, taking casualties every time. The largest partisan fighting I was involved in was near the road at Cherkassy, where the partisan cavalry attacked and withdrew quickly. I ordered my men not to pursue, as it was not our mission. When we linked up with members of 4th Army we felt safer. But that was just the beginning.

Q- You wrote about Soviet atrocities in you your book, Campaign in Russia. Would you describe some of the things you witnessed during the war on both sides?

A- The partisans were usually the worst group to be captured by; they gouged out eyes, cut off fingers, genitalia, toes, and would butcher a man in front of his comrades before beginning their field interrogation. This was confirmed from both soldiers who escaped captivity and defecting partisans who were sickened by the sight and later joined the anti-Stalinist cause. One even had photographs that were turned over to the intelligence section of 2nd SS Panzer Army. I saw them. I saw a young German soldier, part of a reconnaissance patrol that had disappeared who had his legs crudely amputated at the knees with a saw or knife. We could see that even dying after this procedure he had managed to crawl several meters with his fingers. Another SS man had been crucified alive and his genitals removed and stuffed in his mouth. Several times we witnessed the Soviets and partisans retreating after a battle, stopping long enough to kill our wounded, usually by smashing their heads with their weapons or using a bayonet, shovel, ax handle, or knife. This did nothing to engender a more humane attitude towards the partisans when captured.

Q- What was the atmosphere like fighting next to the other European volunteers?

A- Well, the Russians hated the Italians certainly, I think even more than they hated the Germans, which I wrote about. I remember Italians being killed and tortured in horrible ways. Once a group of prisoners was stripped of their clothes and dowsed in ice water and were allowed to freeze to death. This was during the winter, and they died frozen alive. They even killed doctors and the chaplain. We discovered these events after recapturing a couple of villages. It was absolutely horrible.

Q- How were the peasants’ attitudes towards your unit and the Germans?

A- The peasants were just simple people who had suffered under Stalin and the great promises of Communism, and they were, for the most part very supportive of us. This was most evident when we attended their religious services. I attended regularly whenever possible, although I am a Catholic, the Russian Orthodox services were handled by priests who had either been in prison, sent to Siberia, or living in hiding for many years. We supported their religious freedom and they responded very well. It was very moving to see parents bring their young children for Baptisms and Christenings, and the old people holding their icons and crucifixes. They prayed for an end to Stalin and his measures, they also prayed for us to win. Another thing that must be remembered is that we also assisted the peasants in bringing in their crops, protected them from partisan reprisals and gave them jobs. They lived a better life under us for three years than under the Communists during their entire lives. They also gave us great intelligence on partisan and Red Army activity, and worked as translators and scouts. This was especially true in the Ukraine, although sometimes the Germans in charge woul

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